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Article:
 Whither Web Services?
Subject: The Exagerated Demise of Web Services
Date: 2002-10-25 18:06:23
From: Kurt Cagle

Having long been a skeptic of web services in general (for most of the same reasons that you bring up in your superb article) I am glad that the hype-pendulum is beginning to swing the other way. I especially liked your definition of Web Services as "XML in Motion", a definition which has to me served as a benchmark for most of the work I've been involved with for the last several years.


The principle difficulty with web services as defined specifically by Microsoft is that it places upon XML the onus of acting as if it was a binary brokering protocol, with the implicit added assumption that it should exist solely for the purpose of servicing COM components. The irony here is that in order to do this it is necessary to create a complex structure (and lots of standards) that add to the overhead of building applications while simultaneously ignoring XML's role as a means of transporting semantic state information.


Web Services (even in the more restrictive SOAP/WSDL/UDDI sense) will continue to get a lot of play by Microsoft, IBM, et al., but the attempt to build up a complex infrastructure that affects everything from UI to security to transaction management will probably collapse of its own weight because it relies far too much on both retrofitting the Internet to accomodate these complex standards and the continued cooperation of arch-competitors towards a level of interoperability that has relatively little demand.


Meanwhile, people will continue to build REST applications without knowing it, because such applications are the most intuitive (and most effective) ways of working with XML on the web. The web has evolved not because large companies established the standards (as much as the revisionist line would indicate otherwise), but because individuals attempted to solve local problems as simply as possible. XML web services will be no different.


Concerning RDF - RDF can be mind-bendingly complex at times, because its focus, creating relational frameworks, skirts the edge of the most conceptually sophisticated philosophical arenas of study - how we think. It is not, I will agree with Don Box on this, a magic pixie dust, but it is powerful when used properly, and has evolved the way it has because the issues that it is used with cannot be reduced into simpler forms. I suspect that the difficulty that Microsoft in general has with RDF (based upon the lack of RDF usage in everything except the rather odd channel specification developed very early on) comes from the fact that it doesn't fit easily into the API mentality that effects everything from application development to ... well, web services.


-- Kurt Cagle


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  • The Exagerated Demise of Web Services
    2002-10-28 08:22:19 Mark Baker [Reply]

    If I understand you and Edd correctly, you're suggesting that redefining "Web services" will somehow save them? I don't buy that. Most users have a pretty clear idea in their head what they are. And most of the Web services "gurus" have a pretty similar model in their heads that they're trying to write down in the Web Services Architecture WG. But that model is utterly broken, as the recent mess of unnecessary choreography/orchestration specs has demonstrated.


    Web services will most definitely fail; the backlash has already begun, and there's not enough good associated technology in place to turn that around. Plus, whatever chance they might have had, they lost when the major promoters failed to educate people how to build them properly - though they probably didn't even know themselves; those people who did have a clue in those companies, had their voices drowned out by the vast majority who were clue-challenged.

    • The Exagerated Demise of Web Services
      2002-10-29 01:40:20 Edd Dumbill [Reply]

      No, I don't think you understand what I was saying. I have long admired your ardour against the tottering tower of web services specs, and think it justified, but it may have colored your perception of what I wrote.


      What I was saying is that the real excitement of web services is basically the same as that from exchanging XML. Whatever protocols rule the roost it's the interoperability and potential network effects that are interesting.

      • The Exagerated Demise of Web Services
        2002-12-04 17:56:42 Ian Hollingworth [Reply]

        Edd


        I agree with you that the it is the "exchanging XML" part of the web services that offers the real value today.


        Using XML to exchange information becomes useful when it allows a community with a common interest to orchestrate (or choreograph) standardized end-to-end business processes involving multiple organizations and disparate information systems.


        Once the community has (with some rigour) specified how the standardized end-to-end business process will operate (a huge challenge in my experience if the business process has any degree of complexity) the community then needs to agree on the structure and content of the XML business documents used to exchange information (i.e. agree on an XML schema and XML tag usage).


        Finally, there must be agreement on how the documents are going to be transmitted (messaging) - this is rarely a major issue.

        The hype suggests that web services technologies can make multi-enterprise business process integration a simple "plug 'n play" exercise. The theoretical potential is there, but I think this is many years away. In the mean time, SOAP and WSDL have a place as useful tools (among other viable alternatives) that a community may deploy to facilitate "through the firewall" application integration. SOAP and WSDL do not address the most significant challenge however: obtaining agreement up front within a community on a standardized end-to-end business process.





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