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Article:
 A Weblog API For the Grassroots
Subject: So much confusion
Date: 2003-08-05 23:24:25
From: Mark Pilgrim

Wow, so much confusion in this article, it's hard to know where to start. Let's see...


1. The whole thing about WebDAV is confusing. Why would we want to try to be compatible with a protocol nobody uses?


2. The API will not be deferring authentication mechanisms to arbitrary other standards. The supported authentication mechanism(s) are currently under discussion. WS-Security is one of many proposals.


3. The whole confusion with the API being "tightly coupled" with the syndication format. WHO CARES if the site has a syndicated feed or not? The API defines a way for authors to add/edit/delete/search content on their site. Your questions about "well what if I don't want a syndicated feed" just don't make any sense at all. The conceptual data model is similar, and so the serialization is similar. That's all.


4. "Since the entries can be considered a single XML document" is just laughable on its face, and is another sign of category error. Just because we use XML in the API doesn't mean that we're mandating it for a storage format. XPath makes no sense at all for this application. All the personal CMSes I'm aware of either store content in a series of flat files, or in a low-end database. Neither supports XPath. Mandating an XPath-based query interface would put this waaay out of the realm of implementability for 99% of the target audience.


5. As Joe pointed out, RSD is being dropped in the next draft.


6. I think you are also confused in thinking that a REST approach mandates *separate* URLs for each action. This is a common misconception. The URLs for new post, edit post, delete post, and get post can all be the same URL of a single script (such as a CGI), with no different parameters or anything. The CGI script dispatches based on the HTTP verb used. See http://bitworking.org/news/Carrot_Versus_Orange for an example.


7. Your entire argument in favor of SOAP seems to be based on the level of indirection introduced by RSD (soon to be nixed) and several misconceptions, such as that you need separate URLs for each action (not true).


In short, this entire article is poorly argued. Where it is not poorly argued, it is dangerously misleading, and where it is not misleading, it is simply wrong.


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  • no one uses webDAV?!!
    2003-08-06 01:44:26 bryan rasmussen [Reply]


    c'mon Exchange uses webDAV, windows 2000+ uses webDAV (to go on with Microsoft stuff most of their big products support it, Sharepoint etc.), Apache has a webDAV module (not full implementation if I remember correctly), most native xml databases that I'm aware of support some sort of webDAV interface, a lot of programming languages have webDAV libraries... I could go on with a list of major players supporting webDAV that would probably be as long as the original article, I counted on www.webdav.org/projects over 20 open source webDAV projects, and over 20 commercial products. As I am also aware of numerous products not listed on this list I am forced to conclude that, whoa, this webDAV thing is all over the place!




  • So much confusion
    2003-08-06 04:08:00 Rich Salz [Reply]

    Thanks for the detailed analysis. A couple of corrections: since wiki was all about "rss replacement" my claimed confusion in #3 is sensible; if the API is really about remote content management, than WebDav requires even more consideration than I thoguth. :) As for #6, no, I don't have that confusion.


    Dangerous? Wow.


  • Many people use WebDAV
    2003-08-19 16:01:26 Jim Whitehead [Reply]

    There are currently many applications and servers that support the WebDAV protocol. These include:


    Microsoft Office (Word, Excel, PowerPoint)
    Microsoft Web Folders
    Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, FrameMaker, InDesign, GoLive, Acrobat
    Macromedia Dreamweaver
    XML Spy
    Apple iDisk, iCal
    TeamDrive


    Servers:
    Apache mod_dav (native and Catacomb)
    Microsoft IIS
    Oracle 9i
    Xythos Web File Server
    WebStar V
    Filenet Panagon
    Tamino
    SAP


    There are many people and organizations that use WebDAV daily, and depend on it to ensure they can share and collaborate on their files.


    SecuritySpace records that there are over 450,000 Apache servers on the Internet that report installation of mod_dav -- doubtless there are many more behind firewalls.


    You can find out more about WebDAV at http://www.webdav.org/

  • Nobody uses WebDAV?
    2004-02-01 01:36:29 Bayle Shanks [Reply]

    I'm not an expert on web standards, but my impression is that WebDAV is an up-and-coming technology, not a dud. I've been puzzling over the relationship between WebDAV and Atom myself. I'll continue this discussion on the Atom wiki.



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